er.... bollox (could think of anything else!!!)

uatec · Post by **uatec** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 8:51 am

LazyManc wrote:He basically spent the whole evening taking every oppertunity to call atheists fools or morons for not seeing the light. He likened not believing in god to not believing in gravity or mountains.

But you must realise, to him, God is just as real, or maybe even more so, than gravity or mountains. So you not believing does seem blindingly stupid.

Not that I believe myself. I just think that I see where your mate is comming from on that one, and that it is important to understand why.

biggles · Post by **biggles** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 10:17 am

pushing religion onto someone else who doesnt beleive in god/follows another religion is unforgivable i think. so an atheist beleives that there is no god?

Post by **mid_gen** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:05 pm

uatec wrote:
But you must realise, to him, God is just as real, or maybe even more so, than gravity or mountains. So you not believing does seem blindingly stupid.

Not that I believe myself. I just think that I see where your mate is comming from on that one, and that it is important to understand why.

You know why I don't believe in God? Because I have *never* seen any real evidence that he exists. Maybe I am an 'overly scientific' person, but I won't believe anything unless I see more than one documented account of it. We get taught to always analyse things thoroughly, don't base all your research on just one source, and at the same time we are being told to place total, blind faith in one single book.

The morals etc. that religion teach are a great thing, but blind faith is extremely dangerous. Blind faith is why people fly planes into buildings.

Post by **mid_gen** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:06 pm

biggles wrote:pushing religion onto someone else who doesnt beleive in god/follows another religion is unforgivable i think. so an atheist beleives that there is no god?

I saw a poster up at a train station, it was a quote from the bible. I can't remember the exact words but it basically said "the non-believer is a fool".

Offensive turd, I hope they burn in hell

rib? · Post by **rib?** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:10 pm

mid_gen wrote:
biggles wrote:pushing religion onto someone else who doesnt beleive in god/follows another religion is unforgivable i think. so an atheist beleives that there is no god?
I saw a poster up at a train station, it was a quote from the bible. I can't remember the exact words but it basically said "the non-believer is a fool".

Offensive turd, I hope they burn in hell

what an excellent quote... i saw the contradition in that. did anyone else?

LazyManc · Post by **LazyManc** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 2:07 pm

uatec wrote:
LazyManc wrote:He basically spent the whole evening taking every oppertunity to call atheists fools or morons for not seeing the light. He likened not believing in god to not believing in gravity or mountains.
But you must realise, to him, God is just as real, or maybe even more so, than gravity or mountains. So you not believing does seem blindingly stupid.

Not that I believe myself. I just think that I see where your mate is comming from on that one, and that it is important to understand why.

It wasn't my m8 that said it, it was the guy giving the talk (not that it matters). The point is though, things like gravity and mountains can be measured, they give reliably constant results under experimentation. They don't require any kind of faith to see that they exist.

Proving the existance of someone called Jesus Christ does not mean that he was the son of god, or that there is a god. And if you're going to be a christian, then at least accept that the creation story and Noah and his ark are all myths. Trying to make out that they are still legitimate explanations is just complete stupidity.

uatec · Post by **uatec** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 4:24 pm

I know Lazymanc, I agree with you completely.

Rib, WTF?

Seahorse · Post by **Seahorse** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 4:49 pm

Love thy neighbour is a fair sentiment, but have you seen who I live next door to...

snipKulsnip

Post by **mid_gen** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 5:44 pm

rib? wrote:
mid_gen wrote:
biggles wrote:pushing religion onto someone else who doesnt beleive in god/follows another religion is unforgivable i think. so an atheist beleives that there is no god?
I saw a poster up at a train station, it was a quote from the bible. I can't remember the exact words but it basically said "the non-believer is a fool".

Offensive turd, I hope they burn in hell
what an excellent quote... i saw the contradition in that. did anyone else?

It was deliberate

fabian · Post by **fabian** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 9:02 pm

the clasical god of theism, should be all knowing, all powerful, and all good. however there is evil in the world. so if god is all knowing and all powerful then he can stop evil, and he knows about evil, this means he can not be all good. if he is all powerful and all good, then he can not be all knowing because there is still evil, and he could stop evil if he knew about it. if he is all good and all knowing then he can not be all powerfulo because there is still evil. this points to two possiblr conclusions:
1. god does not exsist
2. god is not all powerful and so why should we worship him?

garlando · Post by **garlando** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 10:04 pm

mid_gen wrote: You know why I don't believe in God? Because I have *never* seen any real evidence that he exists. Maybe I am an 'overly scientific' person, but I won't believe anything unless I see more than one documented account of it.

Faith = ability to belive without proof of existance[/b]

biggles · Post by **biggles** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 1:10 am

i dont see the contradiction:< although it is 1am.

just to clarify the bible is not really a book, it is a sorted collections of different peoples accounts of the life of jesus.

can all these people be WRONG??? there are a few contradictions, some of jesus's wording is lost from john to jim and so on, but its basically all good, apparently they found the book of pete or something in egypt, i wonder if that will get added.......

people do some stupid things, but only religion can get you to strap a bomb to your chest.

has anyone seen south park, 4th grade, episode entitled 'simpsons alrdy did it', they get sea people (sea monkeys) and semen (Mr Mackeys) and put them into a tank through a misunderstandinging, and of course we all know that sea people, plus semen, = seaciety, and they all praise cartman as their god, BUT, along comes tweak, and one half build a tweak statue! then they suicide bomb eachother, then mininuke eachother destroying their tank, and making a mess in cartmans room.

if that doesnt make you think..........

uatec · Post by **uatec** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 10:48 am

/me picks up book, and a bible

book has pages, so does bible
book has words, so does bible
book tells information, so does bible

Spey · Post by **Spey** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:33 pm

i do so hate religious discussions

and mid...turbo on a trueno...argh...you philistine (shit another bible reference) N/A all the way..

and biggles please do shut up before i take offence...the bible isnt a collection of peoples lives about jesus or whatever...it goes way back to the beginning of time and is basically a history of man

and also jesus didnt appear 'around' 0bc

bc stands for BEFORE CHRIST... the whole dating system we have at the moment is based on his birth

Spey · Post by **Spey** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:46 pm

fabian wrote:the clasical god of theism, should be all knowing, all powerful, and all good. however there is evil in the world. so if god is all knowing and all powerful then he can stop evil, and he knows about evil, this means he can not be all good. if he is all powerful and all good, then he can not be all knowing because there is still evil, and he could stop evil if he knew about it. if he is all good and all knowing then he can not be all powerfulo because there is still evil. this points to two possiblr conclusions:
1. god does not exsist
2. god is not all powerful and so why should we worship him?

this is the most pig ignorant view ever...god isnt here to "fight off evil" for us so we can live in peace and harmony for ever and ever like good little robots, if you ever read the bible...god created the world perfectly, with no evil or bad things.... then through mankinds sin the world was transformed into what we see today

god isnt here to bail us out of trouble. you dont get a free ride just because there is a god.

the whole concept of earth is a test for you, god created a world for man and man fucks it up royally...then people blame god for the state of the world, god never made man do evil things...but he did give him choice. rather than make him a mindless automoton, he created man with free will to decide for himself what he wants. so far id say mankind has made some pretty poor choices.

Seahorse · Post by **Seahorse** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:49 pm

Except his birthday isn't 25 Dec, it's just a Pagan Festival hijacked by Christians.

* 12/25 to 1/5: Yule--Old Teutonic festival dedicated to Freyr-Freyja, God-Goddess of life, death, and fertility; celebrated with evergreens, fires, and feasting. Sound familiar?

[Many religions were practiced in Europe and the Middle East prior to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. All, however, were grounded in Nature and its rhythms. All Old Roman, Old Greek, and Old Egyptian holidays in this calendar are based on the Roman calendar. The Old Celtic, Old Teutonic, Old Slavic, Old Sumerian, and Old Canaanite-Hebrew holidays are based on the traditional 8-part solar year. The Old European holidays of the Triple Goddess are based on the traditional 3-part lunar year; and the Old European holidays of the Vegetation God are based on the traditional 4-part solar year.]

Jesus was not born in Bethlehem. He was born in a building about a kilometre south of the Qumran platue. Jesus was born during the reign of high priest Simon Boethus who was in power between 23 to 5 b.c.
Jesus was born on March 1, 7 b.c. In order to regulize his status he was allocated the official birthday of 15 September in line with the Messianic requirment.

It was in a.d. 314 the Roman Emperor Constantine the Great changed the date of Jesus's birthday to December 25. Sad to say this date is still believed by many to be his birthdate.

According to the Bible Luke 2:8 "Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night." This proof that Jesus Christ was not born in the winter on December 25th. How can the shepherd be out in the field when it is so cold on a wintry night?

Funny how things change over the years. I offer these snippets up for general interest rather than to prove or disprove your favourite tome or religion. Game of Chinese Whispers anyone...

Spey · Post by **Spey** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 1:16 pm

also btw for you science peens...you cant measure god like you can gravity

he created gravity..and is exempt from the rules of it...he is a god man...its like saying if something is too big to measure it doesnt exist...if we put it in computery terms...computer programmers are not part of the code..so to speak

god is outside of the laws of physics ect....as i said before its a test of faith...if he just appeared before everyone people would have no choice but to beleive in him. he isnt microsoft, he doesnt want everyone to believe in him so he can get more money or whatever....he has given the world enough evidence of his existance and left people to decide from there

god isnt trying to prove himself to you..and the fact you think a creation of mankind could measure a god is ridiculous

science will never explain god...because we lack the basic comprehension of what a god is

biggles · Post by **biggles** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 1:22 pm

so we are born, get shitted up, beaten up, beat some people up, spend 60+ years scraping thru, then spend another few trying to pay our heating bill, before we die, unless we die a violent death earlier on,

thanks god.

quoting kryten 'human heaven? no theres no such place as human heaven, thats just something someone made up to prevent you all going nuts'

a kid gets run over,
god moves in mysterious ways,

a kid is told 6months before they die, that they are terminally ill,
god moves in mysterious ways,

an old man dies of hypothermia,
god moves in mysterious ways,

all of this can be explained by Faith, but if you have none, you cant grow it.

Post by **Kulgan** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 1:46 pm

Spey wrote:god created the world perfectly, with no evil or bad things.... then through mankinds sin the world was transformed into what we see today

Erk.. I'm getting involved - I told myself I shouldn't...
Anyway.

If God created the world perfectly, with no evil or bad things, and mankind was created in God's image, how exactly is mankind supposed to commit sins? Given that we're not evil, and were created in God's image?

/me runs away.

K

Seahorse · Post by **Seahorse** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 1:54 pm

If we were created in his image, why aren't we all a bit Medditeranean looking?

Oh, and if you really want to get your panties in twist about dodgy dates, check this site.

My favourite question for Bible fans:

Why doesn't it mention Dinosaurs?